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  1. #1
    Captains Club ContenderWays's Avatar
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    Default Anglers need to put the sport back in daytime swordfish pursuit

    Here's today's article from Steve Waters...


    Anglers need to put the sport back in daytime swordfish pursuit

    Steve Waters | Outdoors Writer
    October 7, 2007

    It seems everybody's got a daytime swordfishing story these days. The more I write about deep-dropping for swordfish, the more catch reports I get.

    Friday I had a story about an angler who caught a 300-pounder the first time he fished for swordfish during the day. The week before I wrote about South Florida's first daytime swordfishing tournament, which was won by a 376-pounder and a 340-pounder caught by three generations of the Montella family.

    Thursday evening I got an e-mail with photos of a 280-pounder caught during the day by Jamie Bunn, Art Sapp and Capt. Mario Fortier off Fort Lauderdale. Friday morning I had two friends call me at the same time to tell me about a whopper of a swordfish story:

    Thursday morning, Capt. Dean Panos caught a swordfish that was more than 13 feet long from the tip of its sword to its tail and weighed an estimated 510 pounds.

    The fish measured 109 inches from its lower jaw to the fork of its tail and 159 inches overall with a 60-inch girth. According to Panos, it's the biggest swordfish that he knows of caught in South Florida during the day. His previous biggest swordfish, caught at night, weighed 420 pounds.

    Panos, of Pembroke Pines, was fishing on his 34 SeaVee Double D out of Haulover Inlet with fellow charter fishing captain Jimmy David and Eddie Carmen of Biscayne Rods.

    Their first drop to the bottom with a squid on a Lindgren-Pitman 12-volt electric reel, at about 8:30, produced a bite within a minute and they boated a 140-pound swordfish. Their second drop produced another bite, but the fish got off.

    "Our third drop [at 10:30 a.m.], after about five minutes or so we noticed a little bounce on the rod," Panos said. "From 1,400 feet [down] up to 1,000 feet, he fought pretty hard, then he zipped up to the top. The reel couldn't keep up with him.

    "He came to the surface and he showed us his bill, which was pretty big. Then he showed us his tail, so we knew it was big. Then he showed us his dorsal fin and I said we might have two fish because there was so much distance between the dorsal and the tail."

    The fight lasted two hours using 100-pound braided line and a 300-pound leader.

    When the fish came to the boat, "All of us said, 'Oh my God, it's 500 pounds!' He was pretty much spent, but lifting a 500-pound fish over the gunwales is always a challenge," Panos said. "After that we were done. There was no more room in the boat."

    Some anglers have questioned whether it's ethical to catch and kill all these big breeder swordfish using electric reels. Panos said he and others are trying to develop a way to catch the fish on rod and reel from boats that don't have fighting chairs, and that he and Carmen, the rodmaker, are working on developing the fishing rods.

    "The electric reels are helping us to understand what's going on," Panos said. "To really understand the bite and understand the effect of different types of current and how to make our rigs not spin, you've got to experiment by dropping and lifting the bait and dropping it and lifting it. With a rod and reel, you'd get worn out after a couple of drops."

    Fortier, who runs a private sportfisherman, said he plans to tag and release the swordfish he catches during the day on electric reels.

    "The fish that we're catching out here are coming up so lively, it's very easy to let them go," Fortier said. "What I think I'm going to try to get my boss to do is tag one of these with a satellite tag and let him go. I'll donate the time and the boat and the fuel and take a scientist out with us to tag the fish."

    Steve Waters can be reached at swaters@sun-sentinel.com or 954-356-4648.

  2. #2

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    That's a shame. If they get worn out from just a few drops, then they should be at the gym instead of fishing swords.

  3. #3
    Slob Shark Tagger's Avatar
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    I agree it takes a bit of the sport out of swordfishing, but being a long time deep dropper, I have done my share without electric reels. I don't care how good of shape you are, cranking up a bait and heavy weight with over 1500 feet of line is not much fun.

    The guys are still figuring out this daytime thing, and the electics will definetley help cut down the trial/error time. I don't blame them at all! In fact, more power to them that they figured this out.

    I have caught a few myself daytime fishing over the past few years. Didn't use my electrics but consider myself lucky to have caught them.

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    Captains Club Jesslyn's Avatar
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    Steve,

    You are welcome to come out with me on my next day trip and work the reel. We do not use electrics on my boat and then you can come back and write about what it is like to hand crank.

  5. #5

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    Jesslyn,

    I've been going to the gym. I'd love to take you up on the offer. I'll cover your costs. I have an award trip on Jet Blue I need to use.

    I've done 3 different trips to SE Florida for swords with one sublegal for 5 nights effort. The weather has kept me shorebound more than I fished. The weather there makes it difficult for the traveling angler.

    Steve

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  7. #7
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    What the hell do you do with 510 lbs of Sword Steaks?
    Playin' A.G.E. Fishing Team

  8. #8
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    Although a 500#+ fish is incredible, I do believe the electric reel takes away from the accomplishment. The electric reel is not sport. It's not fishing. It's more like catching, because 9/10 times, the fish doesn't stand a chance.

    I'm not an electric reel fan, nor will I use it if I ever try the daytime thing.
    Costa Oil
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    "All I know is that I know nothing." -Socrates

  9. #9
    Captains Club Ivan11's Avatar
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    i heard the same story the other day when i was getting off shift. at first i thought damn 510lb, man thats awesome. then he told me they used those electric cranes to bring him up =/ to each his own. im sure if i caught a 510lb fish i fought for 6 hrs on rod and real id want to keep it no questions asked. but it seems this daytime swording produces more big fish, the "breeders" most people are calling them. the producers of the 100-250lb fish we used to catch at night so often. i dont know shit compared to some of the guys on this site with expierence and marine biology backrounds and what not, but ive always told myself i love fishing for a sport and for some dinner. 510lb of sword is alot of meat, including bringing home mulitple fish. ive always been happy with 1 sword per night. i dont wanna preach to anyone just posting some opinons. swords are getting pressure during the day as much or more then night time. im still interested in trying it, but all the handcranking turns me off lol. ill give it a shot though once i get with the right people who have done it before but ill still prolly keep the same tradition of bringing home 1 fish and going out to do it, 1-3 times a month depending on weather etc. just some personal thoughts.

  10. #10
    Tinker Swording123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMras View Post
    That's a shame. If they get worn out from just a few drops, then they should be at the gym instead of fishing swords.
    Hahaha, I like that...
    I agree.. a few weeks back I said the exact same thing about taking the "sport" out of it... but pretty much everyone on this forum said the sport was in getting the bite... not in the battle.... pushing a button just doesn't do it for me... I have enjoyed catching them in the day and night... and cranking up a lead in 1500 feet is a good work out at worst... although better when there is a fish to show... catching swords on power gear and bragging about it, well it isn't a great angling feat... It would be like patting all the commercial guys on the back when they killed a big one longlining or on the bouys...

  11. #11
    Captains Club Broadbill's Avatar
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    Guys,

    You can get an adapter for a cordless screw gun that will fit on a Tiagra to crank it up. That way if you don't get a bite you don't have the agony of cranking up a weight from 1600', and if you do hook up it's on conventional tackle.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadbill View Post
    Guys,

    You can get an adapter for a cordless screw gun that will fit on a Tiagra to crank it up. That way if you don't get a bite you don't have the agony of cranking up a weight from 1600', and if you do hook up it's on conventional tackle.
    Good suggestion

  13. #13
    Captains Club Jared Chasteen's Avatar
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    I was actually going to ask the question on here this morning after seeing all the reports of daytiming. This is not my fishery it is you alls. But here is the way i see it.
    I would love to catch a broadbill of 510 pounds, but to me that battle should last a long time...so long you should have to question yourself "why am i doing this? " several times. Your friends should be begging you not to be a ##### or give up. That is the sport of catching the top fish in the ocean not pushing a button. I dont know how many of you have read Zane Greys books on swordin burt he had plenty of battles with fish that were over 300#s that lasted many hours. He said that big fish will almost always come to the boat after 30 or so minutes to see what is bothering it, not because they were tired. his brother had a huge broadbill with 2 feet of the gaff only to have it sound and continue to fight 3 anglers including zane till it earned its freedom 11 hours later. That is why i hunt the Gladiator of the sea not to catch em on electrics.

    Maybe that is why the first daytimers were so secretive with the methods they didnt want 300# fish taken every day. You all have such a close fishery that everyone with a 21ft bay boat can go out in calm conditions and get to the grouds(lucky bastards) They knew this is the most productive way to catch a broadbill. But to me it just means you have to want it that much harder, 1500 feet of line is a lot more than 300.

    I very much like the idea of custom fitting a bit for a handle and cranking up the line that way.

  14. #14

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    Here is my vice with the situation....

    It really is not making us look good in the sportfishing community, regardless whatever conclusions you want to make about it being right or wrong. The swordfish is a gamefish, what you are doing out there it sportfishing unless you have permits to sell fish. Sportfisherman all over do it without electric reel, so while I think it was necessary to find out that it can be done.......that time has came and gone......the problem is that now everybody has these fancy new electric reels

    I also dont think it helps our situation at all. As recreational anglers in South Florida, we have been fighting to keep other interests out on the basis that we have a recovering fishery. Imagine, if you were the person making that decision and you found out that the recs down here were going out "harvesting" the fish with electric reels, would you be so inclined to take sides with us all facts considered.

    Anyways........I thought the bouy guys got em all.......what happened to that?

    In my opinion, it needs to stop. But it is not illegal yet, so I dont think people are "wrong" for doing it, and I dont think it takes anything away from some remarkable catches.

    Just my opinion. I have made a few drops with electric reel, I might do it again some time, but I wouldnt be putting the picture or the story out in the public spotlight. Ill go home and eat some fishy.

    Just my .02

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Grand View Post
    In my opinion, it needs to stop.
    It'll stop. One way or the other. Keep harvesting all these big females and it'll definitely stop.

  16. #16
    Captains Club GENERALturtle.'s Avatar
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    I have to agree. I'm bummed to see all the electric reels showing up. Catching snapper and tile fish does not bother me but a gamefish like a swordfish! com'on. Next people will be trolling with kristals for blue marlin. Not much sport in that..

  17. #17
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    Since the "QUOTA" is driving this engine who cares how the fish are caught?

    Just make sure to report your catch!

    There are nowheres near the daytime anglers as there are at night.

    I dont have a marine biology degree like some on here but dont think there is much of a dent in the population by daytimers. That will probably be the case untill they are commercially fished in the daytime.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by PURPLE FEVER View Post
    Since the "QUOTA" is driving this engine who cares how the fish are caught?

    Just make sure to report your catch!

    There are nowheres near the daytime anglers as there are at night.

    I dont have a marine biology degree like some on here but dont think there is much of a dent in the population by daytimers. That will probably be the case untill they are commercially fished in the daytime.
    Wait a second, Burt with all respect and with the good nature for a debate which I see brewing with this thread regardless.....lets talk about it.

    Have you heard what is going on in Washington? They passed legislature to enable them to close our fishery once we reach our incidental quota. They also are taking measures to have other indicental catches increase the amount they are allowed to keep towards the incidental quota.

    Currently recreational fisherman catch, counts against this quota, in other words, when we report a fish that is one step closer to closing down our fishery. We have not reached our incidental quota ever, speculatively because what has been deemed "lack of reporting."

    ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE QUOTA....end of story
    (btw...for those that dont know, the quota is comprised of an incidental catch quota and a directed catch quota)

    So...they are toying with this concept of "recreational sale of fish" which is being addressed in the conservation forum.

    Now, if this becomes a reality I hope you know what could be in our forseeable future. They upped recs to a 4 fish limit, charterboats to a 6, and headboats to 15. What does this mean?

    With this new daytime fishery, and it effectiveness in targeting larger fish, swordfishing could be a profitable job for your average rec guy who has a permit and is entitled to 4, or your charter boat captain on his off days to pay for the boat.

    Why would they do this? By opening sale of fish, they in a way force reporting for everybody to be legal and report their fish. With this and the aid of the internet reporting, and upping the bycatch that is permitted to be retained on trawlers.......long story short, we could definitely reach this quota, if we did......OUR FISHERY IS SHUT DOWN.

    Simple Fact........so the more publicity that gets drawn to this, the more people are sitting back saying man, look at the guys in Florida who are winching up monsters with electric reels. All of the sudden you have a "commercial fishery" instead of a recreational fishery.....and those who want to partake will be subject to commercial vessel safety laws, Dept. of Ag reguilations, etc.

    Now, with this fact on top of the fact that we are about to get hit with an additional onslaught of bouys.....quite simply......

    The potential for Chaos is great.........I have heard that Ollie has sunk all his money into Artillery

    Here is the citation......

    CFR 50 635.27(c)(1)(i)(B) Swordfish Quota Categories
    paraphrased for easy reading:

    A swordfish from the North Atlantic swordfish stock landed by a vessel for which an incidental catch permit for swordfish or an HMS
    Angling or Charter/Headboat permit has been issued, [or all fish caught after the effective date of a closure of the directed fishery] is counted against the incidental catch quota.

    635.28 Closures.
    * * * * *
    (c) * * *
    (2) Incidental catch closure. When the
    annual incidental catch quota specified
    in § 635.27(c)(1)(i) is reached, or is
    projected to be reached, NMFS will file
    with the Office of the Federal Register
    for publication notification of closure.
    From the effective date and time of such
    notification until additional incidental
    catch quota becomes available, no
    swordfish may be landed in an Atlantic
    coastal state, or be possessed or sold in
    or from the Atlantic Ocean north of 5°
    N. lat. unless the directed fishery is
    open and the appropriate permits have
    been issued to the vessel. In the event
    of a directed and incidental North
    Atlantic swordfish category closure,
    South Atlantic swordfish may be
    possessed in the Atlantic Ocean north of
    5° N. lat. and/or landed in an Atlantic
    coastal state on a vessel with longline
    gear onboard, provided that the
    harvesting vessel does not fish on that
    trip in the Atlantic Ocean north of 5° N.
    lat., the fish were taken legally from
    waters of the Atlantic Ocean south of 5°
    N. lat., and the harvesting vessel reports
    positions with a vessel monitoring
    system as specified in § 635.69.


    Anyways, just some info you might want to think about when considering everything that is going on right now.

    Johnny

  19. #19
    Grander Nick C's Avatar
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    Thank god for the snook now, sails in nov-jan, the cobia from feb til april, and the Yellowfin from april on...

    The Swordfish has become too complicated for me! The snookies are little more low key and easy. I'll stick to them for a while.
    "Put your buoys out... we're comin' in HOT!"

  20. #20

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    Tuna Nick!


  21. #21
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    Johnny I think what you say may come true if we (US) lose part of our quota.

    Are we so close to our current quota that every fish is so meaningful?
    If so,why all the rumours about more bouy permits and sale of rec fish!

  22. #22
    Captains Club Jared Chasteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick C View Post
    Thank god for the snook now, sails in nov-jan, the cobia from feb til april, and the Yellowfin from april on...

    The Swordfish has become too complicated for me! The snookies are little more low key and easy. I'll stick to them for a while.
    i may not post here much, but i know you hunt swordies and are pretty good at it. I dont thuink cobia will get your fix.

    I fish POC texas and we have fished some ready available structure at night as well everyone else who fishes swords in texas. We have pulled the hooks on 2 fish over 200#s and there is about 3 or 4 boats that fish the same spot(that have ever landed one over 150#). Three weeks ago a 265# was taken from that spot on electric. No one has landed one that big here in a while. I know that that fish as well as the potential fla state record(according to igfa) that was taken on electric will not be landed ever again. I am not a conservationist and plan on killing one if i get a shot but it wont be with an electric anytime soon.

    I know the majority of guys on here fish nighttime, but the big uns seem to be caught during dalight with electrics.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by PURPLE FEVER View Post
    Johnny I think what you say may come true if we (US) lose part of our quota.
    Agreed.....not saying write or wrong.....just stating what could possibly happen in the very near future

    Quote Originally Posted by PURPLE FEVER View Post
    Are we so close to our current quota that every fish is so meaningful?
    If so,why all the rumours about more bouy permits and sale of rec fish!
    Not yet....but....

    That amendment to close our fishery was filed this past Thursday

    Why all the rumors?........wait till they get back from Washington.....that is the word as my sources tell me.

    The point with daytime fishing, is that it contradicts every stance we have taken against other interests getting in here....in my opinion.

  24. #24
    Grander Nick C's Avatar
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    From what I understand, no. But with the if they impliment this rec permit, plus the 30 fish from the squid draggers up north, yes we will be close. The recs will be forced to report their fish if they are selling legally. There will also be more people fishing/killing. The incidental quota seems reachable to me...?
    Everything here seems like a double edge sword. No matter what happens, the regular rec swordfisherman like me and you are f***ed. Hence why "Johnny Tuna" and "Tuna Nick" are focused on the Tuna
    "Put your buoys out... we're comin' in HOT!"

  25. #25
    Captains Club Boo's Cruise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Grand View Post
    Wait a second, Burt with all respect and with the good nature for a debate which I see brewing with this thread regardless.....lets talk about it.

    Have you heard what is going on in Washington? They passed legislature to enable them to close our fishery once we reach our incidental quota. They also are taking measures to have other indicental catches increase the amount they are allowed to keep towards the incidental quota.

    Currently recreational fisherman catch, counts against this quota, in other words, when we report a fish that is one step closer to closing down our fishery. We have not reached our incidental quota ever, speculatively because what has been deemed "lack of reporting."

    ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE QUOTA....end of story
    (btw...for those that dont know, the quota is comprised of an incidental catch quota and a directed catch quota)

    So...they are toying with this concept of "recreational sale of fish" which is being addressed in the conservation forum.

    Now, if this becomes a reality I hope you know what could be in our forseeable future. They upped recs to a 4 fish limit, charterboats to a 6, and headboats to 15. What does this mean?

    With this new daytime fishery, and it effectiveness in targeting larger fish, swordfishing could be a profitable job for your average rec guy who has a permit and is entitled to 4, or your charter boat captain on his off days to pay for the boat.

    Why would they do this? By opening sale of fish, they in a way force reporting for everybody to be legal and report their fish. With this and the aid of the internet reporting, and upping the bycatch that is permitted to be retained on trawlers.......long story short, we could definitely reach this quota, if we did......OUR FISHERY IS SHUT DOWN.

    Simple Fact........so the more publicity that gets drawn to this, the more people are sitting back saying man, look at the guys in Florida who are winching up monsters with electric reels. All of the sudden you have a "commercial fishery" instead of a recreational fishery.....and those who want to partake will be subject to commercial vessel safety laws, Dept. of Ag reguilations, etc.

    Now, with this fact on top of the fact that we are about to get hit with an additional onslaught of bouys.....quite simply......

    The potential for Chaos is great.........I have heard that Ollie has sunk all his money into Artillery

    Here is the citation......

    CFR 50 635.27(c)(1)(i)(B) Swordfish Quota Categories
    paraphrased for easy reading:

    A swordfish from the North Atlantic swordfish stock landed by a vessel for which an incidental catch permit for swordfish or an HMS
    Angling or Charter/Headboat permit has been issued, [or all fish caught after the effective date of a closure of the directed fishery] is counted against the incidental catch quota.

    635.28 Closures.
    * * * * *
    (c) * * *
    (2) Incidental catch closure. When the
    annual incidental catch quota specified
    in § 635.27(c)(1)(i) is reached, or is
    projected to be reached, NMFS will file
    with the Office of the Federal Register
    for publication notification of closure.
    From the effective date and time of such
    notification until additional incidental
    catch quota becomes available, no
    swordfish may be landed in an Atlantic
    coastal state, or be possessed or sold in
    or from the Atlantic Ocean north of 5°
    N. lat. unless the directed fishery is
    open and the appropriate permits have
    been issued to the vessel. In the event
    of a directed and incidental North
    Atlantic swordfish category closure,
    South Atlantic swordfish may be
    possessed in the Atlantic Ocean north of
    5° N. lat. and/or landed in an Atlantic
    coastal state on a vessel with longline
    gear onboard, provided that the
    harvesting vessel does not fish on that
    trip in the Atlantic Ocean north of 5° N.
    lat., the fish were taken legally from
    waters of the Atlantic Ocean south of 5°
    N. lat., and the harvesting vessel reports
    positions with a vessel monitoring
    system as specified in § 635.69.


    Anyways, just some info you might want to think about when considering everything that is going on right now.

    Johnny
    That was painful to read but is some interesting info. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not suprised but still shocked. Who is driving this train wreck about to happen??????? Amazing!

  26. #26

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    Who is driving the train wreck?

    You want me to be honest......US.

    We are acting as idiots!!! Both recreational and commercial interests have been at each others throat for self serving purposes, forcing the government to act. Throw in winching up 500#ers, illegal fish sale rumors, lack of reporting, etc.

    End of story!

    It this what is definitely going to happen ...... dont know yet, and before I start flipping out, or anybody for that matter, we need to wait for Vinnie and Ron to get back.

  27. #27
    Captains Club Boo's Cruise's Avatar
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    This is a mans world and as a lady sword angler I would never venture out to express my true feelings over this subject nor over most. But Johnny thanks for saying what I don't have the balls to say .

  28. #28

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    The main jist of what I am saying and have been saying is this, we all need to step back and say what do we care about the fish, our are right to fish for them. Then we need to figure out a manner in which recs and commercial can work together.....longlining, bouy gear, rec fishing....is all part of the solution, not the problem.....

    When this occurs, we will be moving in the right direction.

    You want to hear something that will really get your blood boiling ill add the other .98 to give you a clean $1.00 of my opinion

    If we truly cared about the fishery, we would shut the rec fishery down. We are just causing problems, we are self serving, and we are not contributing to the solution of the issue with the fishery, we are simply contributing to the economy and bitching about any little infringement on "our" fishery. We made such a big deal about no bycatch and no juvenile mortality with the longliners, the government is looking at the bouy gear like........the ultimate solution.

    Conflict with recreational anglers.....yeah, that would be a big deal........BEFORE the daytime fishery.......now.........

  29. #29

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    Think happy thoughts Johnny.....your doing it Johnny....your doing it.

    That is all for today, back to studying

    I am sure the debate will continue, I just want you guys to understand some of these things before we make decisions on our fishery regarding what is right and wrong, moral or immoral, sportfishing or harvest, etc.

    Johnny

  30. #30
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    does anyone know how much the incidental catch quota currently is?Any idea how close it is to being met?

    With NMFS worrying about NOT meeting the quota ,why file an amendment to close the fishery? Sorry I just dont get it! WTF what kind of mind games are they playing?

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